TO BE A STUDENT OF LAW

In order for Dialogic Argumentation (DA) to integrate itself into the current legal playing field those practicing law (judges & attorneys) need to know what it is. They need to be taught. So, what better person to interview to see if this model of argumentation is being used than a REAL-LIFE HONEST TO GOODNESS LAW STUDENT!

<hold for applause>

Originally, I had asked one Alyssa Smith if she would be interested in doing the interview. Alyssa was my "student mentor" for the AIM For Law program.. However, before the whole COVID-19 debacle, Alyssa got a little too drunk at a friend's birthday party the night before we were going to meet and slept in. Of course she emailed and apologized to me profusely but when I attempted to reschedule with her I didn't hear a thing back from her.. I guess she figured she was about to graduate, already had a job, so screw everything else. Thanks a lot, Alyssa...

Regardless, I was able to score Jackie Jimenez (not her real name), Jackie is a 2L at California Western School of Law (which, by the way is short for a second year law student) This time of the year law students are studying, studying, and studying so I was grateful for her time and assured her I wouldn't take up much of her time. After dispensing with the obligatory niceties ("How do you find classes now with COVID-19?", "Yes, as a matter of fact I DO believe the mortality rate has been calculated wrong as part of a fear-mongering technique') we got underway.

"OH MY FUCKING GOD IT WAS LIKE GODDAMED HELL ON EARTH!"

I asked Jackie how she liked law school so far and she assured me that it was SO much better after you get past that first year. I think she put it best when eloquently said, "Oh my fucking God, it was like a goddamned hell on earth." I laughed and asked her if she wouldn't mind explaining a bit. She told me that your first year in law school is no joke. It is designed to be grueling. Rarely does anyone there no the first thing about law, nor do the instructors care. They are going to pummel you with cases and theories and assignments, all in a language you can barely understand. There will be no homework to help you along, to assist youin gleaning some insight into how you are doing in the class.

"Midterms?" I ask

"Fuuuck, no there's no goddamned midterm! You're lucky to even GET a final exam. It is so harsh, I figured that day when I walked into my Contracts exam, that bitch was just gonna look at me and go, 'Fail'"

I asked her about her courses that first year, maybe she took too many, perhaps she took some that were over her head and she replied "No. Nope. See everybody takes the same motherfucking courses, you know what I'm sayin'? All us bitches taking Contracts together. Bitches taking Crim. Law together. Civil Procedures, Property, some Torts and shit"

I asked her how it was, seeing the same 30 or 40 people in the same classes all year long. "How you think it is? Oooh, Nathan, I tell you. Some of these motherfuckers. GodDAMN.." I asked her to elaborate. "Shady, they just some shady bitches." I figured , some upper crust elitist bullshit where they think they can target a minority. "Hell no!" she replied. She explained to me that, at least at CWSL over half the student body were women and nearly half were minorities. Jackie, it seems, was in the majority there. So, why the shadiness?

"You gotta understand, Nathan, that a third of y'all ain't gonna make it past the first year. Simple. They gonna take the lowest third of you, and in my class that was 'bout 100 students, and kick you the fuck out. Doesn't matter what your grades were, ok? How many office hours you sat in on, how much D you had to suck to get here, if you're in that lower third, bye bitch! They do not give a fuck. And the students know this and they gonna make DAMN sure they ain't gonna be in that lower third. That's a lot of fuckin' money wasted."

"AND HOW IS IT NOW?"

"Oh fuck, we all cool now" she replied.

After that first year, Jackie explained, the pressure is off. You start moving towards the areas of law that you're more interested in and you begin to see different faces. I asked her what area of law she was drifting towards - she explained to me that during the beginning of her second year she was certain she was going to be headed towards Employment Law but she changed her mind and instead went towards Family Law. Why the switch to Family Law, I wondered?

"Look, I ain't gonna lie to you. It's 'cause I'm nosy."I laughed. "You laugh," she said "but it's true. I always gotta be up in someone else'd business. I wanna no what nasty dark secrets y'all hiding and get paid for it! Especially these rich white people that don't want no one to know how fucked up and nasty they are! I love that shit"

Now seemed as good of time as any: "What have you learned as far as Dialogical Argumentation goes?"

"S.T.E.P.P.S"

She had no idea what I was talking about. Hm. I was a little disappointed. I had put all this stock into CWSL, and now a student entering into her last year has yet to hear about it. I began explaining to her what DA was when I saw a glimmer of hope. CSWL requires for the second year law students to take what is called their STEPPS program. STEPPS stands for Skills Training for Ethical and Preventive Practice and career Satisfaction. STEPPS is a year long course which meets twice a week.which was introduced by CWSL in 2004 to address several concerns:

1. A lack of teaching basic lawyering skills that all lawyers use

2. Professional Resposibility & Ethics that went beyon the 2 credit first year course

3. A lack of exposure to career paths

4. Modern Learning Theory. As it turns out the method of teaching most law schools utilize is

hundreds of years old. The Modern Learning Theory can be found at:

http://www.funderstanding.com/brain/brain-based-learning/

So with STEPPS the first class of the week is a lecture and the second class is the real-life application of the lecture in an office. Think "clinicals" for a med student. Jackie explained to me that they are taught as attorneys to keep an ipen line of communication with opposing counsel and to be amicable to concessions then each side has won something. This is a pretty far cry from what I consider DA and so I ask her if she's had any classes with Professor Barton and she tells me she hasn't. Nor does she have any her final year...

REALITY CHECK, PLEASE?

But what about all those things I read about CWSL promoting DA, the stuff about Preventative Law, Restorative Justice? How it possible that none of these classes were being taken by someone about to enter the final year of law school?

"You gotta look at it this way, Nathan." Jackie quipped in. "You get told about it, especially in STEPPS, but those classes are electives, ok? You don't gotta take them. Those ain't classes that are gonna help you pass the bar."

I understood that, but don't students opt for classes outside of what will be presented on the bar exam?

"Sure we do. Family Law ain't on the bar exam, so I take classes on that. But you got to realize, you need, what, 90 credits to graduate, right? Once you fill in your required and your recommended courses, that don't leave but, what, 30 some credits, 10 electives to fill? You gonna fill those up with what you want to specialize in and, sorry, I'm trying to make some money here and Alternative Dispute Resolutions ain't gonna cut it."

I thought about it, and it made sense. California Western School of Law is a unique school to be sure. It has an incredible diversity ranking which, as an unfortunate byproduct, it's standards of entry and it's ranking aren't the highest. It's median GPA for incoming first year students is 3.26 with an incoming LSAT score of 151. U.S. News and World Report gave CWSL the dubious distinction of being in the bottom 25% of the 198 law schools in the country. Compare this to the only other ABA-certified law school in San Diego, the University of San Diego (USD) which has a median incoming GPA of 3.57 and an LSAT score of 159. USD's minority rate is 30% compared with CWSL minority rate of 46%. U.S. News and World Report ranked USD at #83.

So what do all those numbers mean? In order to remain inclusive CWSL entrance requirements are set to a level to realistically allow those from disadvantaged and underrepresented backgrounds to be admitted. This is a conscious decision made by the powers that be. Unfortunately, it also lumps them in with the not-so-elite law schools. Those students that attend, like Jackie, are oftentimes not only the first ones in their family to go to law school but to even graduate college, period. It is vital for them, therefore, to find gainful employment after their law school career. They don't have the luxury as many other law school students do to dabble around with some experimental aspect of law having the knowledge that if it doesn't work out, they can always fall back on their families. To CWSL's credit, they strive to set themselves apart from the remainder of the "bottom 25%" by seeking out innovative ways to teach by ensuring their students are "practice ready" and taking the dark-horse approach to law knowing that times are changing and with them, so too will the approaches and methodology to law.

I thank Jackie for her time and insight and remark on how unexpected and refreshing this invterview was.

"You didn't expect someone quite so ghetto, huh?"

I found myself stammering for an excuse.

"Shit, Nathan, you gotta realize this is me. This is how I was raised. When I first went to college though, I learned real quick, I needed to learn a new language if I was gonna succeed. Trust and believe this not the way I talk when I'm in class." She laughed. "Fuck, could you imagine that!? No, in class I'm all 'Professor, the disposition of the lower court did not reflect societal views at the time. It was because of these inconsistencies that allowed certiatori to be granted by the Supreme Court and thus the case remanded back for further review. That (learning that second language), I think in a lot of ways made college and law school even more challenging for me."